Author Topic: Chris R. Eccles Water Fracture Apparatus  (Read 13514 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Hidden

  • Moderator
  • Sr. member
  • ***
  • Posts: 457
Chris R. Eccles Water Fracture Apparatus
« on: August 09, 2009, 22:19:57 pm »
Hello there, i'm currently trying to replicate the simple patent i attached as a pdf file to determine if the voltage-only science is valid. As many people have concluded the key is having nearly no amps and a great amplitude of voltage at a higher frequency (usually up to some khz).

Stan Meyers patent which we all know has one difficulty: getting high voltage and inhibiting amps over a greater amount of time. He is using a variable power supply or a car battery, steps the voltage up by the factor 3 and then seeks resonant condition in a lc-series-circuit. Without resonance the voltage won't be high enough and the amps would be too high. But the capacitance which is determined by the water itself and changes when you use other water or if it heats up over time or if there is gas in it makes it hard to tune the circuit so that he is always oscilating at its resonant frequency.
I found an interesting text in the Chapter 10 pdf about this: http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/Chapter10.pdf


Anyway, so the problem is current inhibiting, the tube cost is also high because grade 316L stainless steel is used, well, some people tried insulating their tubes but would it not be easier to use a concept in which the capacitor plates are not in contact with water? the problem of amp inhibiting is no more, because the electrodes are insulated via 2mm plexiglass on both sides! also you don't need a resonating circuit because you can easily use a hv transformer to get high voltage without current.

here the measurements by which i build the thing:


the electronics are also very simple, some nand-gates, some and-gates, a constant 555 circuit and i use my mikrocontroller pwm for the other pwm. i also bought high voltage cable, although i now think it isn't necessary because of the extremely low amps. i plan to use two flyback-transformers from old televisions.
and last but not least the pdf itself, posted here on the forums as well:
WO9846349A1.pdf (709 KB) or as a text-scan: WFCNewProcess.pdf (63 KB)

Online Hidden

  • Administrator
  • Hero member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3803
    • water structure and science
Re: Chris R. Eccles Water Fracture Apparatus
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2009, 22:41:03 pm »
Hello there, i'm currently trying to replicate the simple patent i attached as a pdf file to determine if the voltage-only science is valid. As many people have concluded the key is having nearly no amps and a great amplitude of voltage at a higher frequency (usually up to some khz).

Stan Meyers patent which we all know has one difficulty: getting high voltage and inhibiting amps over a greater amount of time. He is using a variable power supply or a car battery, steps the voltage up by the factor 3 and then seeks resonant condition in a lc-series-circuit. Without resonance the voltage won't be high enough and the amps would be too high. But the capacitance which is determined by the water itself and changes when you use other water or if it heats up over time or if there is gas in it makes it hard to tune the circuit so that he is always oscilating at its resonant frequency.
I found an interesting text in the Chapter 10 pdf about this: http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/Chapter10.pdf


Anyway, so the problem is current inhibiting, the tube cost is also high because grade 316L stainless steel is used, well, some people tried insulating their tubes but would it not be easier to use a concept in which the capacitor plates are not in contact with water? the problem of amp inhibiting is no more, because the electrodes are insulated via 2mm plexiglass on both sides! also you don't need a resonating circuit because you can easily use a hv transformer to get high voltage without current.

here the measurements by which i build the thing:


the electronics are also very simple, some nand-gates, some and-gates, a constant 555 circuit and i use my mikrocontroller pwm for the other pwm. i also bought high voltage cable, although i now think it isn't necessary because of the extremely low amps. i plan to use two flyback-transformers from old televisions.
and last but not least the pdf itself, posted here on the forums as well:
WO9846349A1.pdf (709 KB) or as a text-scan: WFCNewProcess.pdf (63 KB)

Well, if you have questions for Tad, he is a member here....
And keep us up to date with it. If you manage to get that working, you would be the first with a working replica.

Best regards
Steve

Offline Hidden

  • Moderator
  • Sr. member
  • ***
  • Posts: 457
Re: Chris R. Eccles Water Fracture Apparatus
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2009, 22:49:12 pm »

Well, if you have questions for Tad, he is a member here....
And keep us up to date with it. If you manage to get that working, you would be the first with a working replica.

Best regards
Steve
i think this one is especially interesting because the patent refers to the Tay-Hee Han-, to the Meyer and another patent, and it's also an international patent. I guess if they have an international patent he must have had a working device, at least patents here in germany require that.

i have found a thread on the wfc forum, but no one seemed to care about this one really. do you know anyone who tried to replicate this?

Online Hidden

  • Administrator
  • Hero member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3803
    • water structure and science
Re: Chris R. Eccles Water Fracture Apparatus
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2009, 23:28:23 pm »

Well, if you have questions for Tad, he is a member here....
And keep us up to date with it. If you manage to get that working, you would be the first with a working replica.

Best regards
Steve
i think this one is especially interesting because the patent refers to the Tay-Hee Han-, to the Meyer and another patent, and it's also an international patent. I guess if they have an international patent he must have had a working device, at least patents here in germany require that.

i have found a thread on the wfc forum, but no one seemed to care about this one really. do you know anyone who tried to replicate this?

Hallo nachbar,

Well, i did some tests on that, some time ago.
I went up to 8kV and i didnt see 1 bubble.
The test was done with tapwater.
I stopped there.
But dont let that stop you.

Steve





Offline Hidden

  • 50+
  • *
  • Posts: 68
Re: Chris R. Eccles Water Fracture Apparatus
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2009, 23:43:37 pm »
who says high voltage is necessary ? Most transformers are not quick enough DC pulsing , it becomes expensive for exotic transformers , not really an isue tho if you are serious .

Im thinking medium voltage 24 to 600 with proper impedance matching . Now that is something new and workable .

And when the impedance changes , you tune your setup or your frequency . PLL controlled . This is where I think most people fail also , these 2 key systems is where the complexity lies . That sputtering Kinesisfilms was probably right .

Low voltage = easy to find caps .

Stephen Meyers said is was about the phasing of current and voltage is important , not just high voltage .

The VIC cell is dificult to get phasing with , its not reactive at all , its just crappy water ,  that is the big mystery to me .
« Last Edit: August 10, 2009, 03:17:40 am by Dankie »

Offline Hidden

  • Moderator
  • Sr. member
  • ***
  • Posts: 457
Re: Chris R. Eccles Water Fracture Apparatus
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2009, 10:32:11 am »
yeah i agree with you dankie, that's the complexity of the (rather simple) meyer-circuit.

anyway i'm concentrating on this now,  the frequency range is rather low (200Hz to 400Hz), which should give the capacitor a high impedance and allow the flyback transformer to step up the voltage correctly. (i guess they can be used for higher frequencies too, because they are driven by 15,600Hz (don't know exactly but it was in that range) voltage in a tv anyway.

Offline Hidden

  • 50+
  • *
  • Posts: 58
Re: Chris R. Eccles Water Fracture Apparatus
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2009, 23:38:48 pm »
Hi

For the record,  the Eccles patent is only a patent application and it was abandoned prior to review.  No patent was ever issued.  That may nor may not be relevant.

A TV flyback will not work well at 400hz. The duty cycle will have to be extremely low  to prevent core saturation and over current. This means the dead time will be huge compared to the on time.  TV flybacks typically run at 15Khz with an applied pulse width of a few microseconds. 

Linear Tech makes some interesting IC, several of which are Capacitor Charger Controllers.  These are basically PWM flyback controllers that can be configured to give an HV output.  The pwm is automagically generated based upon feedback from a current sense resistor. So there is current limiting.   The output voltage is determined by the winding ratio.

Attached is a schematic and a zip file that includes a Spice simuation of that schematic.  The values  I used give an output of about 2.7 KV.  I used  a small capacitor to speed up the simulation. 

A TV flyback could possibly work with this IC as long as the primary inductance is around 10 uh. But I imagine that the current will have to be reduced from the 8 amps peak I have set here.   Current is set with R5.  The wire size used on the primary should give a good clue as the the primary current the transformer can handle.  Alternatively,  a custom transformer could be wound.  I would try a gapped E-Core that has a saturation current above 10 amps.

I am putting this here mainly to show that there are much better IC's  for doing PWM than the outdated and unstable 555 timer.   

To run the simulation and experiment with component values you will need to download LTSpice from Linear Tech.   It is free and quite good.

http://www.linear.com

LT3750 Datasheet:   http://cds.linear.com/docs/Datasheet/3750fa.pdf   

Goey

« Last Edit: August 11, 2009, 00:51:55 am by Goeytex »

Offline Hidden

  • 50+
  • *
  • Posts: 68
Re: Chris R. Eccles Water Fracture Apparatus
« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2009, 05:05:04 am »
Hi

For the record,  the Eccles patent is only a patent application and it was abandoned prior to review.  No patent was ever issued.  That may nor may not be relevant.

A TV flyback will not work well at 400hz. The duty cycle will have to be extremely low  to prevent core saturation and over current. This means the dead time will be huge compared to the on time.  TV flybacks typically run at 15Khz with an applied pulse width of a few microseconds. 

Linear Tech makes some interesting IC, several of which are Capacitor Charger Controllers.  These are basically PWM flyback controllers that can be configured to give an HV output.  The pwm is automagically generated based upon feedback from a current sense resistor. So there is current limiting.   The output voltage is determined by the winding ratio.

Attached is a schematic and a zip file that includes a Spice simuation of that schematic.  The values  I used give an output of about 2.7 KV.  I used  a small capacitor to speed up the simulation. 

A TV flyback could possibly work with this IC as long as the primary inductance is around 10 uh. But I imagine that the current will have to be reduced from the 8 amps peak I have set here.   Current is set with R5.  The wire size used on the primary should give a good clue as the the primary current the transformer can handle.  Alternatively,  a custom transformer could be wound.  I would try a gapped E-Core that has a saturation current above 10 amps.

I am putting this here mainly to show that there are much better IC's  for doing PWM than the outdated and unstable 555 timer.   

To run the simulation and experiment with component values you will need to download LTSpice from Linear Tech.   It is free and quite good.

http://www.linear.com

LT3750 Datasheet:   http://cds.linear.com/docs/Datasheet/3750fa.pdf   

Goey

I disagreee ,

the lmc555 is very stable and good for any voltage lvl , it has a very decent 15 ns rise time .

It is like 3 time smore expensive than a regular 555 but worth it .