Author Topic: Pistons  (Read 3203 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Hidden

  • Jr. member
  • *
  • Posts: 31
Pistons
« on: December 08, 2007, 01:38:47 am »
I have been reading alot on this forum and how everything is made, although I am still a little bad on electronics, I make up for it in my mechanical ability, Hydrocars and stevie are very close to getting a car to sucessfully run on water, but my thought is, maybe it isnt just the electronics and how much hydrogen you can produce in a certain amount of time.  As I have said before, I am a gearhead through and through.  I was researching different modifications for engines.  One of my past employers who is still a friend of mine, has an old small block chevrolet.  This engine also has "Gas Ported Pistons" and a Nitrous specific camshaft.  While this may require more hydrogen because of the increased horsepower of the engine, but I thought that the Pistons being Gas Ported and designed for a gaseous fuel instead of a liquid, they may just give you that little bit that you need, or that certain missing puzzle piece.  Please let me know what you think or if anyone has experimented on the engine internals. 

Thank You
Badnova56

Offline Hidden

  • Administrator
  • Hero member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3854
    • water structure and science
Re: Pistons
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2007, 11:57:08 am »
I have been reading alot on this forum and how everything is made, although I am still a little bad on electronics, I make up for it in my mechanical ability, Hydrocars and stevie are very close to getting a car to sucessfully run on water, but my thought is, maybe it isnt just the electronics and how much hydrogen you can produce in a certain amount of time.  As I have said before, I am a gearhead through and through.  I was researching different modifications for engines.  One of my past employers who is still a friend of mine, has an old small block chevrolet.  This engine also has "Gas Ported Pistons" and a Nitrous specific camshaft.  While this may require more hydrogen because of the increased horsepower of the engine, but I thought that the Pistons being Gas Ported and designed for a gaseous fuel instead of a liquid, they may just give you that little bit that you need, or that certain missing puzzle piece.  Please let me know what you think or if anyone has experimented on the engine internals. 

Thank You
Badnova56


Hi,

Good thinking. And of course we have talked about it, bu not published on it here.
For your info. My Volvo has a LPG installation, which is a liquid gas. The liquid is tranformed to the state of gas and then injected in the cylinders. LOL. When I was your age, I completely rebuild cars too......
The answer on your question is yes. We have to start the topic one day on how the install a WFC IN A CAR.
For example:
you have to think about a lot of components that can rust. So, you need SS valves and exhaust.
I think you know what happens when water and iron meet.
The gasses coming out an water driven engine is simple water and air.

I have a question for you motorheads:
As I dont have experience with nitrogen, perhaps you know the answer.
What kind of burning rate has nitrogen? Do you have to adjust the timing when you use nitrogen?
You understand from my question that the burning rate of hydrogen and petrol are different.


Br
Steve

Offline Hidden

  • Jr. member
  • *
  • Posts: 31
Re: Pistons
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2007, 20:18:05 pm »
dear Stevie,

I read one e-book which explained how to "run a car on water" which many of them do, and it said that once the engine is running that he suggests gettin stainless valves, stainless exhaust and ceramicoting the pistons.  but what about if you are trying this on a boosted car.  there is alot of "blow by" against the piston rings.  This means that you have browns gas in your crank case.  I know that hydrogen will evaporate quickly which can be helped by a breather on the valve covers, but it is the oxygen that I am really worried about. JE pistons now has new pistons with various coatings on them which can hold the metal's integrity on nitrous oxide specific engines.  as for your questions about that, Nitrous Oxide does add power to your engine, the way it adds power is the better ratio of oxygen to Nitrogen than the atmosphere air you are burning, not only that, but nitrous oxide also does the job of cooling the combustion chamber.  With the better oxygen ratio, this allows us to add more fuel to the engine which will in turn make more horsepower.  Big nitrous oxide systems require colder range spark plugs with bigger gaps, and also timing is one of the biggest issues with this.  the rule of thumb is that you should *  your timing about 2 degrees for every 50hp shot of nitrous.  I guess what I was trying to say in my earlier post was that these pistons were beefed up and specifically built for fast burning and high temperatures lol.  Just something to think about.  Winter break is coming up for us college kids, I am going to home depot and going to attempt my own electrolysis machine.  Hopefully I can post some pictures by the first of the year. 

Offline Hidden

  • Administrator
  • Hero member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3854
    • water structure and science
Re: Pistons
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2007, 22:37:40 pm »
dear Stevie,

I read one e-book which explained how to "run a car on water" which many of them do, and it said that once the engine is running that he suggests gettin stainless valves, stainless exhaust and ceramicoting the pistons.  but what about if you are trying this on a boosted car.  there is alot of "blow by" against the piston rings.  This means that you have browns gas in your crank case.  I know that hydrogen will evaporate quickly which can be helped by a breather on the valve covers, but it is the oxygen that I am really worried about. JE pistons now has new pistons with various coatings on them which can hold the metal's integrity on nitrous oxide specific engines.  as for your questions about that, Nitrous Oxide does add power to your engine, the way it adds power is the better ratio of oxygen to Nitrogen than the atmosphere air you are burning, not only that, but nitrous oxide also does the job of cooling the combustion chamber.  With the better oxygen ratio, this allows us to add more fuel to the engine which will in turn make more horsepower.  Big nitrous oxide systems require colder range spark plugs with bigger gaps, and also timing is one of the biggest issues with this.  the rule of thumb is that you should *  your timing about 2 degrees for every 50hp shot of nitrous.  I guess what I was trying to say in my earlier post was that these pistons were beefed up and specifically built for fast burning and high temperatures lol.  Just something to think about.  Winter break is coming up for us college kids, I am going to home depot and going to attempt my own electrolysis machine.  Hopefully I can post some pictures by the first of the year. 

Hi  Badnova56,

Go start with electrolysis. After you get enough gas, you can start thinking how to run a car.
Read on freepatentsonline.com all patents of Stanley Meyer. In these patents you will read also stuff on how to modify the hydrogen oxygen mix to a lower energetic mix. Stanley didn't want to modify his engine, so he modified the gas.

Have fun!

br
Steve

« Last Edit: December 22, 2007, 04:30:28 am by hydrocars »

palsness

  • Guest
Re: Pistons
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2008, 17:18:52 pm »
Hi everyone,

I just signed up to this sight a few days ago and been reading through as much as I can.  There are a lot of great ideas here and a lot of good hard work has been accomplished here. 

My thoughts are on engine modifications to run hydrogen is that you don’t have to worry about rust!  I don’t believe that water in the engine will make any difference to the normal engine operations.  My reasons are this.  When an engine runs it burns hydrocarbons and when you bun hydrocarbons you make CO2, CO, H2O from the Hydrocarbons plus the nitrogen in the air will make NO2 at high temp and pressure burning.  Sulfur in the gas will make SO2 and when it mixes with the H2O steam it will form into H2SO4.  The first point I am trying to make is that the Hydrogen in the Hydrocarbon will always make H2O in the burn and there is a lot of Hydrogen in a Hydrocarbon.  That is what makes it such a good energy source.  So if we are burning Hydrocarbons in the engine we are basically burning Hydrogen plus carbon.  The carbon is what makes all the soot, and green house gasses.  There is a little energy from the Carbon getting combined into CO2 but this is minimal.  If we were only burning Carbon then I would see your point.  You can actually burn CO in an engine as it will combine with the O2 and make CO2 but this is very little energy compared to the Hydrogen been combined with the O2. I live in Canada and every winter you can see the exhaust plume coming out of the car…guess what pours out the exhaust until the engine worms up?  Liquid water! This is from the steam been condensed in the cold exhaust pipe.  Now this would be a huge problem if the exhaust and engine never got above 100C…but every engine does, and once you do get above 100C the steam will stay steam.  If you every drive a car on really short trips only then you are doing huge damage to the car if you never get the engine oil above 100C.  The oil will start to get water in it,  and will stay there doing damage to your engine until you take the car for a drive and get that oil above 100C to boil it out the block. 

My second point is that steam engines were made from low grade steal.  They did not have exzautic metals for valves and other components.  Internal rust was not a problem because of the steam as long as they run the engine until it was hot and above 100C.  They had problems in the boiler from the soot and other corrosive gasses eating the metal but mainly the H2SO4.  But again as long as they made sure the engine was ran until it was hot water was not the biggest problem.

Now high flame temperatures is a reason that I would except the need for exzautic valves, coatings, and different pistons, but until I see valves burning, pistons pitting or other heat related problems I don’t think that the water steam is going to be a problem. 

I have not run my car on hydrogen yet, so all of what I have said is just theory.  And I don’t have a problem been shown that I am wrong…but I do think that steam in the exhaust is really not a problem as we have steam in our exhaust now.

My biggest problem is now is still to make enough hydrogen from my WFC to run my car.

Karl
« Last Edit: February 09, 2008, 05:22:59 am by palsness »